england, elastica, and the electric 90s music scene: an interview with jim merlis on working with 90s rock bands

By Grace Wartman

“I didn’t know she had that in her - I was absolutely blown away…”, states Jim Merlis, talking about his experience hearing Hole’s “Doll Parts” before the rest of the world could.

30-years following the release of the song, my friend and I named our music blog that serves as a place to learn about music from the feminine perspective after it. Considering how easy of a decision that was to land on, the impact of “Doll Parts”, and that of Hole in general, is undeniably striking. I got the chance to talk to Jim Merlis, the publicist for Hole’s second studio album Live Through This, about his experiences working with Hole and a variety of other pivotal artists of that time: some of which fit the same angsty girl-rock mold that Hole positions itself into and others that were reluctant to adapt to that contour. 

Grace: I saw in your email thread with Kate that you were told that you were good at working with women. What qualities do you possess that made you suited to do this?

Jim: This is never an intentional path, but the school I went to as a kid in Brooklyn had been an all girls school before, and when I got there it had just changed to co-ed. It was never a big deal to me - the sex of the person didn't matter to me, and I think that's probably more of it rather than a conscious decision. In record labels, it's definitely male-dominant, with the exception of the publicity department, so I had mostly female bosses my entire career.

G: What about working with predominantly-female bands is different from working with predominantly-male bands? What about it separates it from the bulk of music?

J: It’s something that's been passed down for generations. You will always see in any kind of feature on a woman or women band what they wore. You won't see that with a male band. There's a lot of things that are kind of superficial that are brought into the conversation. You also see their age brought up a lot more than you would with a male band. It’s an interesting thing, it's very subtle, and I don't think anyone necessarily intentionally does it but it's something that's been in the background for a long time. It’s brought up a lot and I think because of that, there's more pressure on women when they’re having to present themselves than a guy. A guy can look like he fell out of bed, and it’s kind of considered cool and a woman can’t. That’s probably changing a bit - things have changed radically since when I first started. But it was an interesting lesson that took me a while to learn. I remember setting up photoshoots with women bands and having to take into account a lot of styling, which I wasn’t used to. And at first, to be honest, I was “c'mon they don't need that.” With interviews, whether or not the artist, or even the interviewer, brings it up, it’s still put into the story.

G: How long did you work with Elastica?

J: I worked with them for both of their albums, and I had an in with them through the English band Blur. When Elastica first started, Damon from Blur, and Gorillaz, was dating Justine Frischmann - the singer of Elastica. I think because it was my first band, I became especially close to them and them to me. I remember going to England to meet The Stone Roses, who were signed to Geffen Records, and I actually never ended up meeting with the Stone Roses that whole trip - it kept getting pushed off. But I remember Damon, Alex James and I went out for drinks, and Damon said, “what do you know about my girlfriend’s band?” and I didn’t. But the strange thing that had happened, because I was in the publicity department, there were three different people that I worked with who were chasing Elastica. So, I stayed in England and went to see them play. I also remember going with Justine to see Blur doing a TV special. I wasn't working with them at that point, but I knew the band before they were signed to the label. I worked with them on their first album and helped them get signed to the label (Geffen) because even though there were three of our guys wanting to get them signed, everyone knew I had the inside track because of my relationship with both Damon and Justine.

G: I actually saw Gorillaz two years ago right up front -  definitely one of my favorite shows I’ve been to. 

J: He’s something else, man, I’ve gotta say. Every time he’s described ideas to me, I’ll be like “that’s terrible,” but it’s always a success. I remember him talking to me about Gorillaz and him saying “it’s a hip-hop, animated thing” and I was like “you’ve gotta be kidding me.” I was wrong.

G: You worked with other female led bands such as Hole. Considering that they were around the same time, did they have any influence on Elastica’s sound? 

J: I don't think so - they were all kind of independent. I know that Courtney Love was a big fan of Elastica, and her and Justine hung out quite a bit because they did Lollapalooza together. Justine had a very strong personality, as did Courtney. They weren’t best friends or anything, but they certainly talked. I think they both shared the same musical taste more than they influenced each other.

G: Are there any non-female-led bands or artists that had an influence on their sound?

J: Mostly non-female bands influenced Elastica. Wire was a big influence; David Bowie was a big influence; The Stranglers, a 90s new wave band, were also a very big influence. That was the interesting thing - they took what was male music and put a female touch on it. But they even sort of dressed androgynously, so they weren’t overtly sexual in any kind of way. 

Elastica’s music possesses an effortless cool and remains disconnected from any basis or suggestion of gender: nothing about it is distinctly feminist or progressive. Elastica’s lead singer Justine Frischmann carries that same nonchalance over in her interviews, charming readers with humor and candor. Despite pivoting away from gender classifications and being watered down to appearance, Elastica fell victim to the common, inevitable Riot Grrrl confinement since the band was 75% female. Frischmann expresses her distaste for the Riot Grrrl wave that had a grrrip on many 90s rock fans.  “We’re not writing songs for women or things women might feel,” she told Kara Manning of Rolling Stone. “We try not to marginalize ourselves.” 

Simon Reynolds interviews Elastica, 25th March 1995. Photos by Tom Sheehan.

G: What about Elastica not making it as big as some other bands you’ve worked with sticks with you?

J: With Garbage and Hole, the fact that they were U.S. based helped them a lot. Even though Elastica toured after their first album over here quite a few times, they weren’t in the states all the time. It;s pretty well documented that they had some bad drug problems - it really derailed them. What was so great about them was Donna Matthews and Justine. On the second record, Donna was gone, and it just wasn’t the same. I actually really liked that second record, but it just wasn’t the same thing. Their demise and the fact that they didn’t have this great career has always been kind of sad to me because watching them play was just thrilling. It was also really short sets because their songs are very short - three minutes is an epically long Elastica song. They sort of cut to the chase, and it was just an adrenaline rush when they played. 

G: Was their performance savvy natural or something they learned over time?

J: Very natural. They had a swagger to them that all the best bands have. I’ve said this about a few artists I’ve seen and worked with, but before they even played a note, you knew it was going to be a great show. It’s this air of confidence where you’re like “we’re about to be blown away” - it’s really cool.

G: What advice would you give to a band nowadays trying to achieve Elastica’s sound or a similar sound, and do you think this sound survived the test of time?

J:They have to love that music, and they lifted passages verbatim from other songs, which they got in a little trouble for. To me, that’s always been an influence, and they’re wearing it on their sleeve. What's so great about them, and being around them, is that they love music. They were constantly creating music together - there was always like a guitar out and they were singing and listening to music and whatnot. They also worked their asses off - they played a lot. To come over to the states multiple times is not easy, and they did that and loved it for a while. It is such a different game now, and it’s not just their sound or anything, but just how streaming and whatnot has made things more difficult. There’s good things too - there’s far lower barriers to entry to be in a band than there were back then. You gotta do a lot of work, and you have to make people want to want you and just play a lot. If you have something, just drive it home. I think the live thing is the most important thing, especially with streaming paying so little, you’re gonna have to make your money on the road. 

G: Are there any groups nowadays that fit this sound? 

J: Elastica had a real European, new wave sound. There’s certainly some stuff that’s similar, it’s not exact, but Wet Leg and such is certainly of the same nature. 

G: Going back to Courtney Love, I saw that you heard her play “Doll Parts” for you - what were the circumstances that led up to that?

J: It was a cassette of it. The first time that I met Courtney was the week that Nirvana was on Saturday Night Live. Hole had been on an independent label, Caroline. At the time, I was working at SBK records and SBK had a deal with Food Records in the UK. Blur’s first record and Jesus Jones had come from Food to SBK. Courtney knew the guy that ran Food Records because she spent quite a bit of time in England. She was considering signing to Food, therefore being with SBK in the states, She had a meeting with us and the first hole records very loud and visceral, its great but its not songwriting 101 and she played Doll Parts. And I remember me and the A&R guy’s jaws just dropped. I didn’t know she had that in her - I was absolutely blown away, and then I worked with her a year and a half later. I was actually working with Kurt and Nirvana first, and I went to pick up Kurt from their house to do an interview and Courtney completely remembered me, the A&R guy I was with, and the meeting in such detail. “oh, this is a very smart person.” and then I officially started working with Hole in I think in January of ‘94.

Caitlin Moran interviews Hole, 19th February 1994. Photos by Tom Sheehan.

Hole’s Live Through This just turned 30 this past week, and Elastica’s self titled (and debut) album will hit 30 in January of next year. The two groups may seem generally similar at a first glance, and listen, and the two lead singers may share enough in common to form a friendship. But once you step closer, there’s distinct individuality among the two groups and their motives. Contrasting driving factors and all, the two share in common the fact that thirty years later, artists are still writing songs about the same things that influenced them. 

Justine Frischmann further attests to her efforts of avoiding marginalization on multiple occasions. In an interview with Rolling Stone, Frischmann claimed that “American journalists seem a lot more interested in the music…Britain is so up its ass in terms of journalism; people have been unable to remove themselves or separate the baggage from the music and the gossip.” She cuts straight to the chase in terms of what she wants, which is to be heard more so than seen. Frischmann told Everett True of Melody Maker that “I’d seen the pressures close at hand before Elastica started—‘Oh my God, are we going to be A-listed? Are we going to get that cover?’ It seemed to be missing the point. It’s imperative that you should be written about for your music.”